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What did they do next – Part 8a – Squire and White – 410

Fish Out Of Water Deluxe Edition - singles
Fish Out Of Water Deluxe Edition – singles

Produced by Jeffrey Crecelius, Wayne Hall, Preston Frazier and Bill Govier

This week Mark and I begin to consider what happened when the band essentially split up a short time after the Drama Tour ended almost exactly 39 years ago in December 1980. So we have the chance to see what each member of the band did next and we’re starting with Alan White and Chris Squire.

  • What was XYZ?
  • Who was involved?
  • Where did Run With the Fox come from?

Listen to the episode and let us know what you think!

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Show notes and links:

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  • Jeffrey Crecelius
  • Preston Frazier
  • Bill Govier and
  • Wayne Hall


Aaron Steelman
Dave Owen
Mark James Lang
Paul Tomei
Joost Maglev
David Heyden
Martin Kjellberg
Paul Wilson
Bob Martilotta
Michael O’Connor
Peter Hearnden
Brian Sullivan
David Pannell
Miguel Falcão
Lobate Scarp
Chris Bandini
David Watkinson
Neal Kaforey
Rachel Hadaway
Craig Estenes
Paul Hailes
Mark ‘Zarkol’ Baggs
Doug Curran
Robert Nasir
Fergus Cubbage
Scott Colombo
Fred Barringer
Scott Smith
Geoff Bailie
Simon Barrow
Geoffrey Mason
Stephen Lambe
Guy R DeRome
Steve Dill
Henrik Antonsson
Steve Perry
Hogne Bø Pettersen
Steve Rode
Steve Scott
Jamie McQuinn
Steven Roehr
Ken Fuller
Terence Sadler
Jeremy North
Tim Stannard
Todd Dudley
John Cowan
Tony Handley
John Holden
Joseph Cottrell
John Parry
Keith Hoisington
John Thomson
William Hayes
Barry GorskyMichael Handerhan

Robert and David

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Theme music

The music I use is the last movement of Stravinsky’s Firebird Suite. This has been used as introduction music at many Yes concerts. My theme music is not take from a live concert – I put it together from the following two creative commons sources: thanvannispen and

9 replies on “What did they do next – Part 8a – Squire and White – 410”

Of course, I love Yes, and I liked Led Zeppelin… but nothing I have heard from XYZ made me sorry that the band never saw the light of day. In the end, probably not a good match.

Alternate history time again: If XYZ had actually released and album or two and toured, it probably would not have been a hit, and would have petered out as the individuals moved on to other projects… but Squire and White might have missed the window of opportunity to work with Trevor Rabin… and be left with their own lonely hearts… with no 90125, would there have been ABWH, Union, etc?

Hey Jamie,
Hmmmm….that’s a very interesting “what if” situation…if Squire and White didn’t look for a new guitarist. …maybe Rabin would have taken the offer to form Asia instead of Howe….hmmm…what would Howe have done then….

I love Led Zeppelin (and Yes) – I feel Jimmy did do some Prog stuff (eg. The song remains The same, Achilles Last stand) but no not his preferred style, and yes more blues was his love (although he did try many things).
Would this have been a great album. No! (most 70’s stars struggled in the 80’s).
Was Jimmy the appropriate guitarist = No!
Would I Love to have heard a a complete finished XYZ = Yes.
Similar to your comments ref ‘Squackett’ An odd 1 off project would have been good to listen to what they did in the end (you can’t go off these ‘jams’). Jimmy was also pretty effected by John Bonhams death and didn’t really ever recover from it as well…so a what could have been is probably left alone in history.
Run with Fox – a ‘bad timing’ great single! – I first heard this on “YesYears’ .Didn’t even know it had ever been released….

When it comes to Greenslade I really liked them at the time. I saw them at the Roundhouse and had the 1st and 3rd albums in my pre Punk record collection. Lots of wonderful playing and some gorgeous melodies but buyer beware would be my advice for Yes fans. There is a far stronger jazz influence than some will like and the two-keyboard-no-guitar line up produces a gentler, less bombastic effect than one might expect. This isn’t ELP squared.

The jazz influence is actually more audible in how they combine than in the writing and while this is not a fusion band it isn’t really a rock band either. More a group routed in the jazz and r&b clubs that has expanded its outlook. I tend to file them alongside the likes of Third Ear Band, Gryphon and Gentle Giant. On the upside the bass playing (and rhythm section was their real strength) is going to be a joy to Yes fans but on the downside the singing is uniformly awful. Which is a shame as the lyrics are a cut above most of their peers. You could do worse than start with the recent reissue of Spyglass Guest as it has a BBC In Concert set and a Bob Harris session tacked on.

On the Jimmy Page front he would not have been a great choice if the new band was hoping to play old Yes songs – anyone familiar with live LZ recordings will know that accuracy when soloing was not his strong point and was much more a feel player and bringer of different weights of sound than a virtuoso repeating cadenzas by wrote. At least on the electric. As an acoustic player I imagine him and Steve Howe being more or less on a part in terms of what they would be capable. He may not have managed to internalise all four sides of TFTO but I imagine would have played a mean Yours Is No Disgrace.

All that said in many ways his layering of guitars on Presence and on In Through The Out Door suggests that with the right singer they could have been perfect band mates for an 80s re-imagining of both those groups. Imagine adding Plant to the equation and unleashing Yes’ rhythm section on the material that he was recording as a solo artist in the early 80s and we might have had something really special. We’ll never know of course but it is worth day dreaming about.

The punctuation on the Wikipedia entry for “Run with the Fox” might lead the reader to think that the listed collaborators were only associated with “Return of the Fox”, but I’m pretty sure that they were all involved in the A-side rather than merely its distilled elevator version.
It’s been a great run of podcasts recently – I loved the interviews with Dylan and Oliver and it was entertaining to hear Mark get his teeth into “Rhapsodies”.
Looking forward to the new year with Relayer live and maybe even a new album.
In the mean time, “have yourselves that certain Christmas”.

Greenslade are well worth investigating. All four of their studio albums are excellent. The two keyboardists and no guitarist was novel and innovative. Dave Lawson’s strident vocals are perhaps an acquired taste, but they suit the music well.

Greenslade drummer Andrew McCulloch had previously briefly been in King Crimson, for the studio recording of their third album, Lizard. Of course, this album also features guest vocals from Jon Anderson, singing words by Pete Sinfield (that’s “Sin-field”, not “Sine-field”). See how it all connects?

Incidentally, if you have never really paid attention to the lyrics of Greg Lake’s “I Believe In Father Christmas”, you might want to give them a more careful listen.

Here’s wishing you the Christmas you deserve!

Well said on “I Believe”

There was a piece about it in the FT (of all places) after Greg Lake died though if anything I think they undersell how bleak a song it really is.

In terms of songs about innocence defiled it bears comparison with Richard & Linda Thomson’s “End Of The Rainbow” though the sheet beauty of the tune and the jarring irony of the Prokofiev quotation make Lake’s the better record I think.

“Life seems so rosy in the cradle,
But I’ll be a friend I’ll tell you what’s in store
There’s nothing at the end of the rainbow.
There’s nothing to grow up for anymore”

Merry Christmas everyone!

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