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Author Jon Kirkman on his new Yes book, Dialogue – 258

Songs of Middle Earth
Rick Wakeman – Songs of Middle Earth

Produced by Preston Frazier, David Gordon, Bill Govier and Wayne Hall.

Jon Kirkman joins us this week to talk about his new Yes book, Dialogue. He reveals some fascinating things about 2017 connected with Trevor Horn which are contained in his book and it sounds like it’s going to be a must-have item for serious Yes fans. Mark also reviews a Rick Wakeman album – Songs of Middle Earth -and he goes on a bit of a mini-rant in the 2 pence section! We also enjoy an ARW review from Karl Hillstrom.

  • What’s different about this Yes interviews book?
  • What’s Trevor Horn got up his sleeve?
  • How was Karl’s ARW concert experience?

Listen to the episode then let us know what you think!

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Webpage for the Dialogue book

Show notes and links


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Theme music

The music I use is the last movement of Stravinsky’s Firebird Suite. This has been used as introduction music at many Yes concerts. My theme music is not take from a live concert – I put it together from the following two creative commons sources: thanvannispen and

36 replies on “Author Jon Kirkman on his new Yes book, Dialogue – 258”

Hello a few thoughts re Yes books…..

Yes Perpetual Change book had Roger Dean’s cover, logo, artwork, and letters, Rick Wakeman did the the foreword, the management helped out and Yes have used it as a source often. Officially sold on Yesworld.

Chris Welch’s Yes book Close To The Edge had Rogers logo and many of Yes contributed plus he was the first and biggest champion of Yes for decades. Officially sold on Yesworld.

Dan Hedges book Yes The Authorised Biography, ironically had the cover by Roger but I don’t think it’s liked or even was backed by the band. Yes fans love it though.

So Yes books with the bands backing are few and far between in almost a 50 year career. With about 20 books around the world having been made on Yes, official band backed books come down to two, and now with Jon Kirkham’s new updated book Dialogue it’s three or four if we count the first edition called Time and a Word.

Hope that’s of interest, oh if you believe otherwise then do let me know. I was thinking of doing a piece on Yes books for the Yesmusicpodcast……anyone interested?

David Watkinson

Brilliant thanks Dave. Information from the guys who really know the inside stories like you is always so useful and interesting!

This year will have seen two Yes books released Jon Kirkham’s Dialogue, Martin Poppoff’s Time And A Word.

Next year I can see about three being released, 1, Yes Close To The Edge àbout the album, 2, Yes music seen through the eyes of Simon Barrow, 3, Yesterdays – Jon Anderson’s Warriors to Yes about the early days of Jon.

I know other books are being worked on and more being planned.

Best wishes

David Watkinson

Does anyone know where one can purchase Jim Kirkman’s ‘Yes-Dialogue’ book. The link to the Stereo 33 books did nothing. I just now read about it in the 2015 Prog Magazine Squire tribute. Obviously I’m a little behind on this. Thanks, in advance, for any information!
Ross Smith
ombass2003(at) yahoo (dot) com

Hi David, The Dan Hedges book is titled “Yes: An Authorised Biography” (on the inside lead page) and Dan was apparently PR for Yes in the late 70’s. The book covers the period including Drama and was published in 1982.

Oh I have seen the new Yes book and it’s a must have book, do add it to the Yes collection you have. DW

Hello David,

Thank you for your comments regarding Yes books. There are definitely more then a few out there but there aren’t many with the bands blessings that’s for sure.
Jon’s book will be high on the “to get” list…mainly because of the bands endorsement and because the interviews are recent …something readers are anxious for.

As for your piece on books…go for it! I’m sure people will enjoy reading your thoughts.

Mark Anthony K

It’s the YMP Quote Of The Week:

“Whoever is in YES right now is Yes.” – Jon Kirkman (I agree completely, after all, that is the way it’s always been with this band)

And our first runner-up:

“I WANNA SEE YES, DAMMIT!” – Mark Anthony K.

This was definitely one of the most entertaining and laugh-out-loud funniest shows in quite a while.



Hello Joseph,

Haha…thank you for the kind words. As you can tell I get pretty passionate about Yes concerts…especially when they continue to pass by my region.

And I agree…this episode was pretty funny…nice to have those once in a while.

Thanks for your support and encouragement.

Mark Anthony K

Hello Jeremy,
How are you my friend? Yes my grammar can be very “Canadian slang”…Although getting to know Kevin more now..I’m hoping to pick up some “Queens English”…I’m glad you enjoy the show though. We appreciate loyal listeners like you.

All the best,

Mark Anthony K

I have pre ordered that book and I cannot wait to get my hands on it ….
I’m sure it will be a journey of a life time for all Yes fans..
Great show gentleman
Feel better Mark
New Yes music will be a joy for sure..



Hello Paul,

I’m pleased to hear you have ordered the book. I’m sure you will love it!

Thank you for the best wishes…I feel much better. .almost 100 %.

Take care

Mark Anthony K

I always thought “Dialogue” was the working title for ABWH’s 2nd (and aborted) album, that would possibly have had songs like “Tall Buildings” and “Watching the Flags That Fly” on there…

Hello Giles,

Very interesting. I’m not sure. could be right. That might be talked about in the new book.

Thank you for your support.

Mark Anthony K

Hello. I’m the largest contributor of memorabilia to both the new ‘Dialogue’ book and the previous ‘Time and a Word: The Yes Interviews’ book by Jon Kirkman. I’ve had a digital file version of ‘Dialogue’ for several months, and like Jon’s previous book it looks fantastic. His editor and work partner, Simon, who I’ve been working with on these books for 4 1/2 years, is a wonderful editor and layout expert. So in addition to the very revealing, honest interviews, this book, and the previous one, are filled with tons of photos never published before and memorabilia from my collection of 47 years, and from others, much of it rarely seen before. I strongly recommend folks buy this book as it not only is the best looking Yes book ever published, but filled with unseen photos and memorabilia. FYI, I contributed to Dave Gallant’s two Asia books; the ‘Classic Artists: Yes’ dvd documentary; and the ‘Uncle Joe’s Record Guide: Progressive Rock’ book in 1989. I’ve been writing about music since ’75 for various newspapers, magazines and websites, including ‘Progression’ magazine and ‘Classic Rock Society’ magazine. I was a radio DJ in the 70s and 80s, so interviewed Yes and many other musical acts then. All told, I interviewed Yes on every U.S. tour from ’75-’96, Trevor Rabin on his solo tour in ’89, Rick on his ‘King Arthur’ tour in Oct. ’75, and many other Yes members over the decades. I’ve friends with most Yes members and associates, and with Roger Dean. I’ve been thanked in album, cd and dvd liners by Rick, Dylan Howe, Renaissance, Marillion several times, Spock’s Beard, Mastermind guitarist Bill Berends, and others; and thanked in books by Dream Theater, Dave Cousins of Strawbs, and others. I am also a large contributor to Jon Kirkman’s ‘Lamb’ Genesis book, which may come out next year. Please let me know if I can help here in any way. Thank you, Doug.

Hi Doug and many thanks for the message. Sounds like we should get you on the show soon! We are all passionate about the music and the musicians of Yes so it sounds like this book is going to be amazing with your input as well!

It is amazing. I would also encourage people to buy Jon’s previous book if they can find it online, such as on eBay or Amazon. It was a limited edition so is difficult to find if you didn’t buy it in ’13 or ’14 but well worth the search and money. My copy is signed so far by Jon Kirkman, Roger Dean, Steve Howe, Alan White, Patrick Moraz, Jon Davison, Geoff Downes, Billy Sherwood and Jay Schellen, I first met and talked to Jay when he was in Badfinger with Tony Kaye in about ’82.

Hello Doug,

I agree with Kevin..sounds like you are someone we should have on the show. You most have quite the collection of Yes memorabilia. Love to see a picture of some of it…..mind you…sounds like a lot of it is in Jon’s book.

Hi, Mark. I would love to talk to you guys for the show. As I told Geoff once, I don’t know of anyone else who has had my background in that: I was a radio dj playing Yes and interviewing them (and others); I managed a record store, part of a large chain, selling their music; and I have been writing about them and others for 41 years now as a writer. Plus, I’ve been collecting records and music memorabilia since ’71, so have a huge collection from my radio days and writing career, including over 700 signed albums, singles, posters, photos, cds, dvds, videos, tour programs, etc. You can reach me on Facebook as Doug Curran. My photo shows me wearing my green Curran jacket and striped Curran polo shirt in front of Curran’s restaurant in Minneapolis (distant cousins place). I have posted many music related photos on FB over the years on my page, and on the Yes Through the Ages page, Yes The Classic Years, and co-manage the page Yes Meet Their Fans, all well worth checking out, if you aren’t familiar with them. Please friend me and we can go from there. I have hundreds of stories.

Interesting show. I very much enjoyed the chat with Jon K.

Get well soon Mark. No need to apologise for the brief review, as with most of Rick’s albums, less is more 🙂 .

Hello Jeremy,

Thank you for the best wishes. ..and yes sometimes less is more with “some ” Wakeman albums.

Hi just wondering what speed Mark is doing when he can get from Toronto to Detriot , suspect he will be in Jail to do it in 2 hours lol

Great podcast as usual and to be honest puzzled with this Fly by Here re release but Yes are always one for the unpredictable

Hey Fergus,

Haha…you are correct…it’s more like 4 hours. ..but I blame weaken mental state from my flu for my poor calculations.

Kevin and Mark – thanks for another good episode. Great interview about the book – a bit pricy for those of us in the US. It is about $100 with shipping.

Mark’s US geography needs a bit of work. There are large swaths of land between most major US cities. He specifically mentioned Chicago so here are the major and minor US cities closest to Chicago. The minor cities rarely get Yes shows.

Chicago to Milwaukee 1.5 hours
Chicago to Grand Rapids 2.8 hours
Chicago to Indianapolis 2.6 hours
Chicago to Detroit 5 hours
Chicago to St Louis 4.5 hours

Toronto, on the other hand, is nearly as close to the same number of major and minor cities.

Toronto to Detroit 4.7 hours
Toronto to Buffalo 2.5 hours
Toronto to Rochester 3.5 hours
Toronto to Ottawa 4.1 hours
Toronto to Montreal 6 hours

I’m sorry Mark, but I almost always have to drive 3 hours to see a major concert. Some come to Grand Rapids (about 40 minutes from my home) but usually I have to go to Chicago or Detroit, both 3 hours away. You’ve had two concerts very close recently. An hour drive? That feels like it would be in my back yard. So, while I get your frustration, Mark, you need to go to the shows that are merely an hour away.

I missed a Chicago YES show this past summer and an ARW show last month because they were both in Chicago – too far for when I have to work.

On the other hand, Kevin has MULTIPLE shows within a 3 hour drive. London is less than three hours away from Birmingham. London to Liverpool is only about 4 hours. My guess is that Kevin could probably drive 3 hours or less and see a half dozen Yes shows so lets all be jealous of Kevin!

Also, lets talk population. The US population is about 325 million. The Canadian population is about 35 million. One would expect the number of US shows to be about 10X the number of Canadian shows. (The population of England, by the way, is about 53 million.)

So, rant away, Mark, but maybe a better thing to do would be to gas up your car. 🙂

Hello Bob,

How are you. Hope you are doing well. To be honest…I’m a little better versed in US geography then I let on during the show…having toyed your fine country numerous times I’m more familiar with the US then you might think. Unfortunately in my angered rant state I gave a tendency to just go off with out thinking some things through. But you are 100 % correct in calculations.
But there is one major reason why I’m not “hip” on taking any length of a drive to the US right now …and that is your oh so friendly US Customs and Boarder agents. I’ll just say this…I have a perfectly clean record…no criminal activity ever…yet I also get delayed and hassled to no end. I understand “things” have changed over the years but NO concert is worth that hassle. But in closing I most add that I love the people of America…some of the most friendly people I know…like a lot of people on here. Just wish your boarder folk were more friendly.

Mark Anthony K

Hi Mark – I understand that the border is a huge wild card. I remember as a college student being stopped there for an hour, I took a trip to speak for a church gathering in Hamilton two or three years ago (that’s how ai knew Hamilton was very close to Toronto) and on the way there we spent 10 seconds stopped at the border – no lines or anything. On the way back, though, we were in line for at least a half hour. No hassles other than traffic, though.

I hope to be able to see ARW next summer. The rumor/promise of a summer tour has me ready to go!

I really don’t understand Trevor Horn re-recording his vocals to FFH. It’s like the Pharaoh’s of Egypt! Hopefully it’s more that a re-dubbing. New Yes and ARW music would be great, but I hope they don’t rush it; take the time!

If I calculated right, Yes Dialogues is about $75 US? And it will be double that later (“Half the price it’s going to be on Cruise to the Edge”)? Looks great though.

After all your combined excitement about Dialogue I have just ordered it – Brian don’t forget the post $21.60
Keep up the good work guys
Now I have a couple of comments about the last Benoit David Tour that was mentioned a few shows back – did every one forget that by the time they got to London Chris was sick as a dog “tonight I am more Leonard Cohen than Chris Squire” – and he did salute Benoit at the end.
Didn’t Trevor Horn play bass on one track on the Drama tour (I recall so)
Love the show

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